950. - Sam Fragoso

All right, uh, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it 3 times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?

We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place.

All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.

Hello, gone is here. I'm trying to put on a happy face. We're going to have a good podcast today with our fun guests, and I'm feeling good because Taylor Lawrence whines that NYC bagel shops don't use the right vegan cream cheese and wants Momdani to intervene.

I hate to side with her, but she might have a good point on this. Not that I'm consuming that much vegan cream cheese, but it's something to consider where I think this is a low-stakes thing. If Momdani's giving people discounts for the World Cup, the least he could do is fix the cream cheese.

Oh really?

I will say we've both, I'm sure, over the years eaten many, many bites of tofutti cream cheese, and it does leave a lot to be desired, but it might be the easiest thing that's available through Cisco or whichever, you know, whichever service you're using to deliver your supplies at your local bagelria. So it's—

bagelria? Yeah, that's your local Jewish panadería is what you're saying.

Yeah, I don't know.

Obviously this comes down, you know, we don't know if Taylor is a real, uh, eater. Obviously she's a real eater, um, and my hat's off to her. But you know how some people have, have celiac disease and some people are gluten-free and some people are dairy intolerant? I, I think there's a strong chance that her actual, you know, deficiency and allergy to dairy is real. But it's one of those things like, you know, New York City bagel shops— you want the real NYC bagel experience. I want my bagel deria man to say fuck out of here when you ask for cashew cream cheese. And also, I don't— calorically speaking, cashews—

oh, look, I agree with— I see, actually, I see both sides here.

It's one of the only things where the vegan version of the real thing has as many calories, if not more, than the actual version. And cream cheese is already hella— that's about as fat boy as things get.

I haven't touched cream cheese in years. I've been clean for a while. I don't, I don't hate it, but remember when I went to— remember when I was in Athens?

My bagel, of course, unsalted.

I went to Pop— when I went to Pop-Up Bagels to try it, and they just hand you bagels in a bag with a tub of cream cheese, and I was like, this place is fucking disgusting, like, get me out of here.

Small bagels, was it a rip and dip?

It was a rip and dip, but they weren't— they weren't super Montreal style, which is the only place I've ever ripped and dipped, which is where it's appropriate.

Yeah, no, people seem to like doing the smaller bagels, like a bagel bite or a garlic knot size, and then you dip it in.

You know what I want to go to? All my New Yorkers will know Heaven's Hot Bagel on Houston and like Ridge Street, bro. They got You know what you get?

Heaven's Hot.

Heaven's Hot. You go in there, you— if I'm not feeling— if I'm not feeling bougie, if I ain't spending $20 on the open face at Apollo, I'm trying to go to Heaven's Hot Bagel. I'm getting 2 eggs, lettuce, tomato, avocado on an everything bagel, like a sandwich, and then an orange juice, bro. That's all I need.

I was gonna make a joke about I'm spending $20 on, uh, on some open face. Spend $20 on some face, that's a good deal. But as soon as you said the words lettuce and bagel in the same—

it's a sandwich, bro. It's a sandwich.

What do you mean?

Okay, bro. Okay, sorry, Mr. Traditional. I only want just a single swipe of cream cheese and tomato, seasonal of course, bro. No one's eating—

I don't know, a real, a real bagel. Get a nice sesame bagel, cream cheese, bro. Maybe a little, maybe a little fresh cracked pepper. That's it.

I hate to say it to you, bro.

Soy sauce.

I hate to say it to you, but you ain't Jewish and you never lived in New York, so I can't really take— I can't really I can't listen to you on this.

I'm often confused as a Jew. Most people assume that I am. Most Jewish people hope that I am.

That's— I know they hope that so they can marry you.

And such a heartbreak when I explain to them that I am not.

That you're just 10% Native American.

I'm just a long goy.

All right, before, before our guest gets here, we got North American long goy. Actually, we should talk to our guest about this. Never mind, I'll save it.

Um, actually, well, we were just talking before You were talking about World Cup tickets and about Zoh having a discount.

He's doing something. No, he's doing something with like food. I don't know. I don't pay attention to the World Cup or Zohran if I can.

So you get a free pupusa with every—

but you're talking about the US Open tickets going through the roof.

Well, I was— this is just a little Pilates-related aside. I was up there pumping yesterday, and I guess it's subconsciously a way to shoehorn in. This is the first out of the 150 classes or so I've taken. This is the first one where I look around and I was the best person in class yesterday. Hold for applause.

Well, well, I'm not going to—

and that's not because I'm an excellent Pilates person. It's because it was the day after Memorial Day hangover and it was just a bunch of like fat moms who are kind of phoning it in.

So you're saying the usual baddies had 2 hot dogs with relish instead of 1 and they weren't able to get the Range Rover over to motivate.

And it wasn't a— It wasn't the ability. It was just some— sometimes your heart's not in it.

So today, hold on. So today, so today, let's be clear. You've goysplained bagels to me, and now you're saying that you're the, you're the best at Pilates in your class in Los Angeles, California.

I just want to be clear.

I just want to be clear what you've been saying today, because you're off—

I like goysplaining. I like goysplaining.

I don't think you're, I don't think you're off a bean yet. It's 8:45 in the morning.

Well, it was, that was just a stepping stone to get to my anecdote involving World Cup tickets. Yeah.

You needed to, yeah, you needed to.

I figured we might as well take a couple laps around the lot. Lot while we're here. Be a shame not to.

You're a lot lizard. You're a lot lizard in this case.

Similar. Yeah, I got my binocs out, crowding for some talent, but it was not because I'm a better Pilates person than these other people. It's just because, you know, sometimes the— sometimes Rudy wins the football game, you know what I mean? He's not gonna— yes, you know, it's a one-in-a-lifetime situation. I'm gonna celebrate it and we're gonna move on. I'm gonna get back to work, but The instructor, sometimes when you're in a group fitness class and the instructor starts maybe talking about their own personal life, which is something that I would do every 5 minutes if I ever hosted, it would be a nightmare.

That's why you're a podcaster.

But just that, with the perfect kind of instructor talk, the passive aggression of like, my husband said he really wants to go see the World Cup now that's coming to LA. Never watched soccer in his life. And it's the most expensive ticket in the history of tickets. She's just talking to herself while me and 14 Armenian women are going, uh, uh, uh, and I just loved it.

She has to get it out somewhere. I do like, I like that too.

Doesn't even watch soccer really, but just thinks it'd be a good thing to do.

Hey man, the amount of fairweather soccer fans, these fake Americans, when the World Cup comes around, it's never ending. It's never ending. Everybody's faking it out here. Everybody's faking it out here. I mean, what I'm not, what we're not faking about is UFC, baby. At the White House. Oh my God, the squared circle at the White House. I've been texting Dana White all morning asking where my ticket's at. He ain't responding.

I need a palate cleanser after the enhanced games. I need to see some people, you know, choke each other out on government lawns.

Exactly. Because I thought the ballroom would be ready. I was hoping the ballroom would be ready for this and they could just kind of put down some mats like high school wrestling match style. But unfortunately, unfortunately, it looks like it's two separate things or whatever.

Have the bleachers fold down from either side of the wall.

Yeah, let's just make this— let's multi-use room here at the White House.

Got a nice bald eagle mascot come doing somersaults across the floor. That's nice.

What a dream. What a fucking dream.

Okay, so you're, you're juiced. Which of the lineups are you the most excited about for UFC 250?

Uh, uh, I don't—

is—

we got, we got— who we got in it? We got any— is it Ray J versus Stefon Diggs or anything, or is it like regular shit? Is it regular? Is it like real fighters, or is it like—

I don't really pay attention to, to UFC.

Is it Tony Hinchcliffe and Joe Rogan versus Andrew Shulson, Charlamagne in a tag team event? Because that, that I would—

naturally, we would love to tune in for that. I think it's going to be so—

how much would you— because they were talking about this on Joe Budden— I would fight another podcaster for far less than a million dollars.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, but when you say far less, what's like our guest today?

Our guest today, I would beat his ass for $250,000. I mean, something light. I beat his ass for $200,000.

A quarter of a million?

I'm saying like these, these—

I'll get in the ring with Sam Frogg Ross.

So for a little less than $250,000, just to be clear, call her daddy's off the table. I'm not going to do man-on-woman stuff, but I think I could take like Malcolm Gladwell, bro. I'll sock— I'll knock your little ass out, bro. You crazy.

I would pay to fucking get in there.

But then we got it.

Then we got to get into like, imagine Malcolm getting a clean one and whooping you on the low.

Oh, you and Neil.

I'd have to hang my headphones up.

You and Neil Brennan toe-to-toe, two skinny dorks just going at it. 2 skinny dorks.

I mean, yeah, the old me. Yeah. But now I'm a little, I'm 10% more brolic. I would easily kick Neil Brennan's ass. No offense.

Neil feels like he could get scrappy though. Neil feels like he would, he would do a nut grab.

Neil feel is your version of real feel on the weather app where it's like, yes, he is 135, 6'2", but you know, he's got these long fingers and he's got a fighter spirit. He's one of those guys where like he's gouging the eye and the ref goes to break it up and he doesn't stop. Like one of those pit bulls in London.

I don't want to say, I don't want to say this, but he also, he spent a lot of time with, you know, people who have fought.

We don't know that for sure. You know, David Chappelle is not necessarily, he's not in the slums scrapping. He's a young entertainer.

I think Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock might have scrapped for stage time at some point backstage at the store, threw a Jack and Coke on each other.

I say this as a pussy. We're talking about, this is a bunch of pussies.

That's why I'm saying, that's what I'm saying. I think we could get in there. I think if we, if we keep ourselves out of the manosphere side of things and we fight our sort of, you know, like, what, PopCast? What the fuck are they gonna do, bro? I'll take both of them at once. I don't know. I'll take both of them.

Oh damn, okay.

I'll take both of them once, bro.

I'll duck.

I'll do the thing where Karmonica goes to punch me, I duck, he hits Joe in the face. Bang bang, we're done. I'm out. I don't even have to, I don't have to touch, I don't have to touch.

That's why alumni, I'll take all three of those bitches on at once. I don't give a fuck.

I'll do me and, me and Biz go toe to toe. I'm saying we could also, Jason, if we did, if we did if we did a two-man, I could do the thing where I, you know, I squat behind— oh yeah, Coscarelli, you push him over. I think that could really— this is, this is something—

he falls right on his keister like an idiot. Wow.

I think this is a good idea. I think it's one of our better ideas. All right, let's, let's get Sam on the horn.

Yeah, the problem is, um, Ian's listening right now and he's like, well, so I got, I got $300,000 lined up for the, uh, The Gone Wars. The Gone Wars for the, for the Hungry Games.

All right, our guest today, Sam Fragoso. You know him from his very popular podcast Talk Easy, um, where he does extensive research and puts his hair behind his ears and asks the hard questions. He's like, he's signed up. He's now, he's banging with the Obamas over there. He's, his shit done changed up.

Trying to make Michelle cry on camera.

Like, before we used to hang out with Sam, he would answer our calls, he'd answer our texts. Now Now he's kind of— he's leaving us on read. He's communicating only through communications representatives from giant corporations. We can't get a one-on-one with this guy.

But yeah, Secret Service has been tailing him for a while now. It's tough to get in there.

Luckily, luckily today we've gotten through all the red tape. Secret Service has given us clearance and Sam will be joining us on How Long Gone for the second time. But this, like I said, it's different this time. Things have changed. His pocket's a little fatter. You know what I'm saying? Things are looking up for Sam and down for us.

No. Well, the beauty of Sam is because he does these very well-scripted, well-researched interviews with these, you know, luminaries, iconic luminaries, with these motherfucking— with these MF luminaries. He— so he desires to get into the mud. He desires to get on with some chatty lads and, you know, let his nuts hang. He wants to do this. This is the, you know, this is his vacation. At work and we make it feel easy. And then I guess for us it's another, another day, you know, the opposite of that would be us doing research. That's, that's not—

yeah, I, I don't need to do all that. All right, Sam. All right, let's give Sam a call. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's, uh, it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions.

A lot of questions. But how often— because we do this podcast 3 times a week and that's a sweet spot—

how many times do they do 3 times a week? And I, I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess.

The Guardian is not some billionaire-owned platform. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother.

Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in, in what, uh, journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch on YouTube. It's 3 times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen.

Give it a listen.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by our best friends at BetterHelp. Jason, we're deep into May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month. And this is just a reminder that whatever you're going through, You don't have to go through it alone. Life is a damn journey. Some days feel good and others feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own, but the truth is no one has all the answers. Well, and no journey should be alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand, and to support you can really make all the difference.

I agree, Chris. And sometimes, you know, it, it's nice to be talking to somebody even if they're not even listening, even if you don't even get to be in the same room with them. Because what you're doing is you're admitting these things to yourself, and that's the most— that's the most rewarding thing you can do sometimes. So you can have a great little therapy sesh with your perfect therapist at BetterHelp, choosing between over 30,000 people so you can get the right one just for you. Over 6 million people globally are using it, and, you know, have some breakthroughs. Go on that walk after your BetterHelp sesh, you know, whatever it might be. Get a nice little lunch all for yourself. Maybe a non-alcoholic kombucha, and just think and be like, damn, I really am him. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have somebody with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/howlong. That is betterhelp.com/howlong.

All right, two idiots clapping. I'm gonna sit here. Uh, Sam, what's going on, bro? Are you, are you in your home studio? You've got a nice ceramic mug, Marin style. How you feeling?

I'm in New York. I'm in New York doing it from a place I'm staying in.

Oh, okay. So this is your portable setup.

Doing it from a place I'm staying in. Love the mystery of that sentence.

We got to keep the mystery up.

Oh, I'm just at a place that I'm staying at.

Just a place that I'm staying at. It could be an Airbnb.

You bring the whole rig.

I do.

That's good.

Can I say I kind of brought it because I knew we had to do this. I was like, yeah, I want to make sure, you know, I know you guys are big, big into audio quality, so I just wanted to show up. Prepared.

We are not big into audio quality. Jason is very big into audio quality. I only— I mean, although I say that as a person who listens to a handful of podcasts that actually do sound pretty good, I guess now I think about it, like I'm not listening to shit that's recorded on VoiceNotes. You know, I do, I do, I guess, have a taste for the finer things.

Oh no, I meant Jason when I said we, but I just, I just wanted to, I wanted to lump you in there, Chris.

Well, I mean, I've already been there the whole time, but it's nice that Chris, you know, with, with his time behind the podcasting desk, He's learned to appreciate the finer audiophile frequencies and things like that. Discerning palate has become more discerning.

The first podcast I did with— I mean, when I did the public announcement with Jason, that audio, I mean, my former— we had another podcast and he freaked it like 50 hours NPR level. And people at the time, people were like, why does it sound so good? I'm like, because there's a guy absolutely killing himself to make it sound like this. It's not like—

He deserved a Webby that year, TBH.

Hello.

For his work in the You could have got a Peabody.

Sound beds, et cetera. It's not, you can't just buy mics, you know what I mean?

Vintage outboard, no rack-mounted equalizers. You know, let me just bring that down.

Smartless, Kenny.

I found this thing on Facebook Marketplace. Gotta bump up the lower 6,000 dB.

How much of an audiophile are you, Sam, or do you not really care?

I can't listen to shows. If someone's on a Zoom, it's fine if they're using AirPods, but sometimes you're like, guys, just, just find a room where like you don't hear the lawnmower. Like, this is just— it's like the bare minimum. Like, people are listening to this at work.

Sam, you don't know what— you don't know the shit we've dealt with, bro. We've had some— I mean, famously, one of my— a musician I, I love— I mean, I love— remember this, Jason? Beth Orton. She was like on a train in France and was like, it won't work. And we're like, right, you're on— you're in like a hostel in France. Like, what do you— of course it doesn't work.

Wait, Chris, what did Arlo Parks record on?

We've never talked to Arlo Parks. Don't worry about that. Don't you worry about that.

Arlo Parks may, they may have been on the calendar as a hold, but I think we shut that down.

We got a lot of holds, Sam, but some, not everything makes it through. You know how it is.

I think that day we went to the park instead.

That's honestly, that's not a bad move. One of the first episodes I heard was Chris going in on Arlo Parks for like 3 minutes. And I was like, this is so much time to spend.

I don't even remember. I don't even remember that.

But I remember 3 episodes a week. We got a lot of air to fill. So let's do 20 on Arlo.

It was an— it was a drive-by for sure.

There was a point where Arlo Parks was in the ether too, a little too much. It was a little bit like, what's going on here? You know, I don't say the word— I don't say industry plant. I feel like that's unfair to people because Arlo Parks is quite talented. It's just not my flavor.

Yeah.

But there was a point where it was like, how are you on everyone's song and also ubiquitous and no one knows any? I couldn't— no one on this podcast could name an Arlo Parks song for sure. Couldn't sing a chorus. I don't know.

I can't. If Arlo Parks could be a man or a woman or non-binary, I couldn't tell you.

Secret third thing. Smart, smart to include that. Smart to include.

What do you mean, Jason?

No, he's right. He's right.

What was wrong? What was wrong with that sentence I just said?

Well, I mean, please tell me. Technically and politically, nothing at all. It was a perfect sentence.

Okay.

It was like Trump. It's a perfect sentence. One of the best sentences from the standpoint of English language.

But, but you're, you're, you're saying I should be able to pick Arlo Parks out of a lineup as a cultural commentator?

Yes, bro.

Arlo Parks is a, is, is a very unisex name. I had no idea that Arlo was a person. I swear to God, I thought Arlo Parks was a 4-piece British band. That doesn't—

I mean, it sounds like Maximo Park, Jason, which is from our era, if you remember correctly.

Maximo Park, Arctic Monkeys, you know, they're all— it's, it's a 4-piece with, you know, some mop-headed lads.

I'm going to give it to Jason. That's not unreasonable to think.

Heavily influenced by Franz Ferdinand's first and second albums.

Arlo's underappreciated classics, if you ask me. Uh, all right, Sam, so you're in— what are you doing in New York, bro? Are you just on sabbatical?

No, I'm doing some tapings. And also, I want to give one shout out. I actually like a few Arlo Parks songs, and I feel like she may hear this.

Okay.

And I'm gonna feel really guilty.

She ain't listening. She ain't listening to these toxic white boys talk about music.

Well, name some of your favorite songs without some— give me some of that white guilt right now. What are some of the favorite tune song names without looking it up?

No, I actually have a tight 30 minutes on this if you guys want to kind of dive in.

Okay. You sound like— didn't Drake say that, that you listen to Kendrick music because it's white guilt or something? There was something like that.

Something like that.

Drake said, or white boys listen to your music, which is—

Protect our parks.

I actually did. I haven't heard. I'm sure you guys have talked about it, but what are you making of the whole everything in the algorithm musician-wise is fake? And the feeds are all like, it's the geese, the geese of it all. Like what? What? Because you guys know way more about that than I do.

What month is this, Sam? This feels like what we were talking about in Feb, but we'll go back into the archives.

I'm out of date. I'm out of date.

We have a different frequency of a release schedule. So, you know, it's all good.

Well, Sam's— Jason, Sam's busy getting security clearance for Air Force One. You know what I mean? He can't wade in the waters of clip farms. That's not really his problem.

I have been. I have been in Michelle Obama land. So I missed all the geese controversy.

I will say that the geese controversy is a, like all things, a non-starter, you know what I mean? I think it's, it's literally like people doing business and then regular people finding out about how that business gets done and being mad, if that, if that makes sense.

It's like, yeah, I mean, I thought everyone does that.

Everyone does. That's what I mean. A lot of people do that in some way.

Many people do it. I think it's just like the line with AI, like everyone has a line, and some people are like, you're, you did it, Natty. And you know, my definition of Natty is different than others, or I use AI to do, yeah, you know, normal helpful things, or I use AI to do maybe some more darker, sinister things that, you know, I'm not being forthcoming about.

Yeah, I think that's the— I think the AI of it all has people on their heels at all times looking to react in a more strong way depending on, you know, because now the line is drawn where it's like, hey man, it's coming whether you want it or not, you better get down or lay down. Or it's like, fuck this, I'm on a landline, ah! And it's— there's no— there's sort of like the nuanced in which we of course love to explore here on How Long Gone.

I mean, that's what the whole show is.

Is a rarity.

Yeah, you can use AI to make titties bigger. So also something to consider.

100%.

Under feet.

You know what AI couldn't do? You know what AI couldn't do? Whatever Jason does with that camera on his chest when he shows what he's making.

It's real talk though. AI couldn't do that.

I am always so impressed by those videos. I'm like, how is he cooking? And also not fucking up the camera. And it also looks good. I'm just very impressed by the whole operation.

Well, if you need any video for your little podcast, Jason's in— Jason's, you know, he could, he could rig you up.

Well, basically it's just you, you figure out the rig, okay? You know, where, where— because I'm so tall, I, you know, they have the headlamp thing, but I've— or like the Meta glasses, which other people like. But I'm so tall, I got the Meta glasses on, I'm looking down at my soufflé, it looks like an ant, it's so far away. So I do the chest strap to get a little closer to it, but otherwise Otherwise, once it's locked and loaded, I hit record and the frame is set.

You're ready to go.

Yeah. I don't have to do anything.

He was born with that. What he's saying is he's once again height mogged you and that's the only reason it really works.

Right. As well as arm mogged. My arms are great and long.

He has that uncut dog in him. I get it.

Yeah.

I mean, since we last spoke, you guys are now doing video podcasts.

No, Sam, we're not doing video podcasts. We're doing a program called How Long Gone Today that stands alone, that's at a desk in Burbank, much like some of the more famed late night hosts that failing, um, the failing late night has— you support all those, you support all those libs.

We're showing Stephen Colbert how to do it with, uh, 3 guys instead of 3,000 guys.

We don't have— dude, we got, we got 3, barely 3 guys, meaning me, Jason, there's 1 guy, 3 cameras, he has to play on all that shit, we crank it.

So you guys are anti-union, is that what you're saying?

Oh, I've been anti-union since the day I was born. Um, that's not a, that's not a question for me. Why am I— no, no, I, I think that, um, some unions are good.

Some unions are bitch-ass.

Union on La Brea, they actually have a great selection. I don't know if you're into— I don't know if you're into Visvim or not, but like—

Also the union between LGBTQ+ people, I think that's good personally. I think they should be allowed to do that. I don't know how you feel, Sam.

Those unions should totally be legal, Sam. Don't even question that.

Yeah. And I had tons of questions, so I'm glad you guys are getting out in front of it.

I don't, um, I find that the— yeah, I think the whole point of How Long Gone today was to differentiate it. Obviously, we would like it to come out more often, but to us, I think having a set and it living that way and looking like that and not being audio first is what makes it different.

You did the— was it Bon Iver one? Was that on video?

Yeah, we do. Yeah, we just did that. We just did that kind of because like he wanted to do it. He wanted to do it. But I think part of it was also he wasn't going to tour for that record. And so I think they were like, well, shit, we better do some fun stuff.

He was listening to the pod, he liked our vibe, the label, you know, threw a little money together. He had a local camera guy that was really good and already was friends with him, had been to the house before. So it was, it was kismet.

If you guys didn't have to pay for it, that's perfect.

Yeah, well, we got to pay for the other ones. I mean, it's, it's, um, I think that it's sort of like, uh, I don't know, I, I think it's something you got to do. But I think for, you know, you know how it is, dude, it's the same. It's like, yeah, if you, if you do have a chance to take any sort of creative license, you know what I mean? Because it's not like we're setting up two mics in a garage, you know what I mean, with Celsius cans all over the ground. Then it does give us— it, it gives it— it makes it something different if you choose to make it something different, even though it's obviously very, very similar.

Sometimes the different thing that we're creating is literal brain rot, but you know, so be it. Yeah, it's worse.

It's worse. It's way worse. I'm not saying it's good, I'm just saying that it's different.

Is that how you guys see How Long Gone? Is it brain rot 3 times a week?

No, just the video. Just the video. Just the video. The audio is excellence. The video is just because it's like us, like we with no notes, like Chris will write down like, here's 10 funny things that happened on Twitter this week and we make an hour-long improvised show out of that. And then we go back and then the brain rot part is me adding in, you know, footage of roller coasters and video games and, you know, bum fights and stuff like that. So, but the audio version of the pod that you're on right now, you know, classic stuff, stuff that gets butts in seats. Um, but the audio podcast, we take a little more seriously and it's something that we're, I'm, I'm proud of. I think our, our, the quality of our product is high.

Yeah. I, I, I'm proud of both. I just think it's, um, I don't know, man. I just think that everybody listens to podcasts or watches things for such different reasons. And I feel like maybe I, do you guys feel, do you agree with me? Do you think maybe we're getting back into an entertainment it. Like, I feel like for a while it was really about optimization, whether it was listening to The Daily so you could leave the house knowing about how bad it is in Iran so you could talk about with your coworkers, or it was like, I need, I need to listen to Huberman to know my blood, you know, my oxygen levels.

I downloaded 37, uh, talking points about my sleep score optimization by listening to this Huberman at 4X.

I'm actually listening to my blood panels on as a podcast that they've created for me using AI.

Uh, We gotta stop as a culture with talking about each other's sleep.

I do.

It's just like, sleep is a little bit like dreams. I mean, it really is. I don't need to hear it.

When you think about it, no, no, no, it's only interesting to you. Nobody gives a fuck about anyone else's sleep.

I don't care about your score. I don't care about how you unwind. I mean, more power to you, do that. I watch Law and Order, great. But I just think it's too much.

I got an 89 last night. I don't talk about it, okay?

Yeah, is 89 good? What is it out of?

I'll go with 100 is my guess.

Well, I'm wondering, I wonder if 89 is good.

If you touch on the 90s, wow.

My question is, are the metrics accurate, consistent across different—

they are not. My Whoop and my Fitbit and my Apple Watch, it's 3 wildly different pieces of info because you, because you sort of, you have to make up some dumb proprietary thing to like make it worth it to people.

Wait, do you have all of those?

God, no, bro. Are you kidding me? My shit clean, bro. You will never catch me.

No, not you, Chris. I'm saying Jason.

Well, Jason's Florida with a little more than I have. He might not want to talk about that.

During COVID I had an Apple Watch. Sure.

Best he's ever looked though, to be fair. So I mean, that's the shame.

That's the bummer of it is I was in the best shape of my life.

Jason answered that the way like Governor Shapiro answered when I asked if he had any problems with Fetterman. He was like, um, sure. Okay. A little. I mean, a little bit.

I don't think that those, I think the wearable thing is just another trend a little bit. Like, I don't think— I think a lot of people look at the data. I don't know if people are actually crunching the numbers or if they're just like, I have it, so it makes me better, if that makes sense. Like, I don't know if they actually understand what they're reading or they're applying it to their sort of day-in, day-out lives.

I have no idea.

I think it's just part of the same, um, just being glued to the phone for all pieces of information. It's the same as all of your friends who have a kid who go out to dinner and have both of their phones set up on the baby monitors, the doggy cams, the kitten litter cams. The Citizen app, the Nextdoor app, you know, you're just glued to it constantly receiving data and monitoring the situation. But we've talked about it a lot on the pod before of, you know, you could wake up after a night of partying and be like, damn, last night was awesome. I'm a fucking legend. I'm a beast. This is so good. Let's go get some breakfast burritos and do it all over again. My life is a movie. And then you look at your phone and you're like, my sleep score is 37. oh my God, my day is shot. It's ruined. It can fully affect your life in a negative way.

There's just things I don't need to know. I don't weigh myself either. I don't need to know that.

Can you imagine David Bowie checking his sleep score?

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. No, I mean, that's the thing. The problem is I wonder though if like, are today's David Bowies, which obviously is an oxymoron and they're few and far between.

Youngblood.

That's about it. Harry Styles probably has a garment on right now because he's a runner. You know what I mean?

Oh guys, I'm so sorry, I, I do have to go. I'm so sorry.

Would David Bowie still be alive if he had a Whoop strap? You know, something to think about.

The best, Sam, is where— I mean, you live in LA— the best is when you see the guys strapped up. They got the Whoop on one arm, the— or, and either an Oura Ring or another, another strap on the other arm, like they're going into battle. And it's like, dude, you work in sales. Like, what do you— what is this for? Like, you work in sales and you are ripped. Like, I get it. And you're, you're your, your Rivian is charged, but like, I don't know if we need that much.

My wife said she's gonna leave me if I don't get my resting heart rate down.

Yeah, like, I don't know, at a certain point I'm like, I don't know, I'm not sure who this is for.

It's for people who are like, I have so little going on in my life that I'm gonna like compete with the 3 guys I play golf with about like who got the most sleep last night.

Where it used to be like, Sam, when you go out with your boys, it's like, all right, who's gonna put down a 12er tonight? You know, now it's like, who ran a faster mile?

Check it out, boys. Yeah, 9 hours. 9 hours last night. I'm fucking drunk.

You're like, let me get, let me get 12 High Life. I'll be here for the next couple hours. And there, and those guys are, those guys are doing something a little different.

You know, they're like a pretty good SNL sketch of like the boys get together and they're like, goddamn, we're well rested. My Lord, can you believe the fucking heart rate check?

Yeah, I thought so.

The work-life balance. My God.

That's what's so, that's what is interesting though. The work-life balance thing. Is still a conversation, but the optimization thing is also a conversation. And to me, those two things are completely at odds with each other based on what you're trying to achieve, what the goal is, you know. But I know you don't have a work-life balance, you know what I mean? You're kind of on it.

Everything is copy ass.

Everything.

Well, now that, now that, now that you went corporate, I bet that Slack is booming. You got the Slack.

No, I'm not, I'm not on Slack.

The Higher Ground Slack.

Oh, show me about your B2B tools.

I got nothing to do with Slack.

You ain't all Slack. You ain't got anybody— what, you're— how many text message groups are you in? Not for like your little fantasy leagues, but real shit.

I mean, there's probably more for fantasy basketball leagues.

I knew it, I knew it.

Let's talk hoops a little bit then.

Let's, let's please.

We're heating up from downtown.

I mean, I try to talk about things that Chris will maybe like.

Well, you brought it, you brought up Arlo Parks and basketball, so you're 0 for 2.

Arlo Parks was a perfect bit, so that was just—

we can keep—

that's gonna stay in, I hope.

Have you seen, have you seen any Hadids on a yacht? We can talk about that for a while, Sam.

He doesn't even know who they are, Jason. No, that's— no, he would— Sam would never.

He's like, yeah, I love Anwar's No idea.

But honestly, listening to How Long Gone, every time I listen to it, I'm like, wow. Like, just, I'm learning a lot. You guys are my entry point into things I would never know about.

Okay. The prime example, our dear friend Andrews Steele, while you were saying that, sent me a text message. He's at a deli somewhere in New York, I'm assuming. And he sent me a picture of cream cheese and the cream cheese is covered in pistachio and little crispy bits. It's Dubai cream cheese.

We're getting— Jason, I'm going to tell I'm gonna tell Andrews to drop a pen. I'm getting you a little pint of that for next time I see you.

A pint of cream cheese.

Okay, wait, I actually do have a question. I, wait, can I ask you guys, who is Taylor Lorenz?

We can't, I'm sorry, we can't get into this.

Well, 'cause I don't really understand. I don't know what's going on.

She's a journalist. She's a journalist. She's a journalist that leans in the tech sector. That's all I can say.

But I've seen her tweets and they, Yeah, something is amiss, I think.

Well, there's a new thing where she demanded Mom Donny make them use better vegan cream cheese at delis. So that came up earlier and I don't know if she was joking. It feels like that has to be a joke.

She likes to grab headlines. She's a talented journalist in the tech space, but she has a style of attention grabbing that is—

And let me tell you what, if she could kill us and get away with it, she would.

She really does not like us at all, and rightfully so.

Rightfully so. Rightfully so.

What did you do?

I— we just make fun of people who wear masks. Like, like, not, not in— not during the height.

I mean, now people who have to wear masks to stay alive hate it when you make fun of them.

It's a bit that she doesn't find funny.

I wore a mask for the first time in like 2 years last week.

Were you redoing the coffee table? What's up, bro?

Nah, I was really sick and I was like in New York and I was like, what is that?

What does that— what does that have to do with anything?

I was just like, I I don't want to cough on anything. I feel bad. I was like not in good shape, but I had to take—

Were you on the airplane?

I got off the airplane. Then we took public transit because I'm a man of the people.

And Obama, we know that, we know the higher ground doesn't pay that well. I know you take the train, but I'm just saying that you—

Okay. Well, were you walking around Manhattan outdoors with a mask on or was it all— because I think if you're sick on a plane, put a mask on. I don't give a shit. I think that's good.

Well, no, the airplane has like the best filtration. Like that's like the best.

Don't Malcolm Gladwell us with that info, Sam. Come on. I used to work, I used to work for him.

So they got You gotta put an AK-47 in my head for me to put a mask on again. I swear to God, it better— it's got to be Chernobyl. It's got to be Chernobyl for me to put them out. I just don't like it, man. I just really don't like it.

And I didn't like it. I didn't like it at all.

But you were— dude, you were wearing it. Hold on, you had a mask on on the train. Follow-up question: did you have a backpack with you?

I had a backpack on me, yeah.

Okay, that's, that's tough, bro.

What?

Why, why is it— why is this—

that combo together It's a volatile fusion.

I look like a dork. I mean, there's no question about that.

They're like, that guy looks like he probably like one of those Sam Fragoso type podcasters. You're like, oh shit, that is him.

Wow.

And he's wearing his Radiotopia backpack.

That's literally how like Tucker Carlson mispronounces my last name too.

Like that.

Exactly like that. I'm like his nightmare.

Do you get rock— do you get rock-ignized in New York more than LA when you're out mask-free?

It'd be amazing if I actually only get recognized when I wear a mask.

Well, the way that your podcast is so fucking serious, people are staring into your eyes the whole time. They're trying to find out about how—

You look naked without your mask on. It's like, who are you?

So you're saying, where do you get rockognized the most besides the public library?

Jason, is Chris saying recognized in a weird way?

Okay, rockognized is a fun Fun term where it's like a rock star gets recognized in public.

Oh yeah, this is something I actually learned from our guest today, Kevin Morby, and Katie say it. But Jason, actually I ran into Sabrina Blanchelle at the Erewhon.

Oh, sounds like one of the Suicide Girls, doesn't it? But no, she's like, I bet you get recognized here a lot.

And I was like, wow, I've never— I haven't heard— she was using it because she knew I knew what it meant in this way. It was like a nice hat tip. So rockignize means when you're at a bookstore and some, I mean, I'm not going to say overweight, but a bigger—

I love that the BMI needs to come into play during this.

I'm sorry.

I'll stop.

I'll stop.

You thick bit whoosh ass over here. Get the fuck out of here.

Okay. For example, when I'm, I live in LA, but whenever I'm in Lower East Side of New York or so, I mean, I'm bopping around all over, bicoastal, all that. Let's get it, baby. Travel vibes only. But you know, if I'm in Lower Manhattan, you know, SoHo, Lower East Side, whatever, every couple blocks, yo, TJ found the pop, boom boom boom.

But every couple blocks is generous.

But no, it's not. Wow. I was thinking about this before.

How can I ask, how long are these blocks?

Every time I go to the doctor, I walk out of that bitch feeling dumb I got no real info. This guy in a white coat just say, you're fine, you know, drink more water.

He knows how to charge my copay.

Exactly.

That's about it.

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What's a Revolve Man?

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Genuinely. Yeah, it's one of those things, we're all busy. Let's say we got an important dinner coming up at the end of the week It's Tuesday, you're working every single day, you don't have time to go shopping and try clothes on and blah blah blah, or even just browse, you know. Revolve, it's all there, it's all curated for what you want, and then you click buy, you go to bed, a couple days later that shows up in packaging that's a little nicer than the other places you're buying clothes from, and you've got a nice look for the big night out. And then you're like, wait a minute, I don't even have to return this because I enjoy this clothing and I want to wear it again another time, versus all those some other websites. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve Man always has it. Go to revolveman.com/howlong to shop and use code HOWLONG for 15% off your order. Free 2-day shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That is revolve.com/howlong and use the promo code HOWLONG to get 15% off your entire order. Offer ends soon. Don't sleep on it. And you don't need clothes too. You can get just a cool candle or an incense gift for a baby shower, whatever it is, revolve.com/howlong.

Great question. You're like, are these avenues?

Some blocks are longer than others. I will say he doesn't live here.

He doesn't, he's never lived in New York, Sam. So he doesn't understand the difference between avenues and blocks.

But I have the, I have the reason. I have the reason for this and it'll make sense to you.

Oh, okay.

You guys will get there.

Let's get there.

Oh, there's a point. There's a point to this. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Because I'm, not only a big part of it is the massive success of our podcast, but it is my literal height where truly everyone subconsciously or not, I— they are an audience member of me. Just me walking around in public is a sight to behold. And everyone really is. I have not been an NPC since I was, you know, since I was 13 or something.

I walk into a party, I immediately know Jason's there.

Well, that's true. And I want to be very clear, it has nothing to do with this podcast, but I want to say, so Sam, where do you get recognized the most? Whole Foods?

That term is so horrible.

Yeah. That's why we use it. Cause it's funny. Where do you get recognized?

Okay. Well, where do you get pod-ignized?

I was thinking about the fact that Whole Foods. Yeah, actually Whole Foods is a good one.

I know.

Bookstores.

Look, all joking aside. Yes. Whole Foods is the correct one.

Okay.

Look, every couple Whole Foods, every couple blocks.

Yeah, what about the airport? What about the airport? What about the airport?

I have got airport, but you know, I was thinking, and when people come up, because like you said, like the show is— can be serious, I think it's actually been a little looser in the last year, hopefully.

But your show, you mean?

Yeah, we've— I think with the video it's been more fun to fuck around, and I've really enjoyed that. But when people come up, they do have usually a pretty like emotional response to it.

Really?

They're usually talking about something that they were going through when they heard something. And I have loved almost every— no, and actually in a really good way, or people are just like, you did a great job asking Elizabeth Warren hard questions.

I forget that you get that. I forget you get like, yeah, you really stuck it to her.

You know, people love David Mamet walking out. People love telling me about how funny that was when he compared me to Hitler 3 times.

Sorry, dude. I'm team Mamet, but we'll get into that later. I don't think you're Hitler.

Your Patti Smith episode got me through my chemo.

Patti, yeah, your Patti Smith episode made her books good.

By the way, Jason, can I say you look great in recovery, Jason? You look fantastic.

Namaste to you, brother.

I have— everyone that comes up is really nice. I feel like the guys that— I feel like it's dudes coming up to you asking if like they can model for J.Crew, Chris. And Jason, can they get tickets to like you DJing at that festival in Pasadena that I don't know?

No, they're pretty— no, people are not— people are very nice. Nice. Now, there was a point where that— where it was like not— where it was a little more like, I wanna like, whoa, you wanna neg me, you know, kind of thing. Now it's not like that at all.

I do remember I talked to Alex the first time I met your wife, Chris, and she— we talked about podcast stuff for some reason, and she was like, the interactions that she watches you have with dudes on the street in New York Just horrifying business.

And ladies, she killed—

yeah, and ladies, it's true. She was making me dying. It was so fucking funny.

I, I know this story. I know this story because you guys were talking about it for a while, and then of course she didn't lead with this, and then you were like, wait, what, what podcast is it actually? After 30 minutes, and you're like, I know him.

She didn't tell me. And I don't, you know, I don't know who anyone is with, so I never know anything like that.

Alex was even like like, I'm not going to say they're overweight, but, uh, and you still didn't— you still couldn't put it together.

He's a, he's a bigger guy, I would say. He's a bigger guy. He's on the bigger side.

Well, I think because that Chris and I are, are spewing some strongly worded opinions, often negative, about people and things where they're personally offended and hurt by, we're more likely to get some of that interaction, whereas you and Gwyneth, you know, talking about her childhood, it's gonna bring in less ire in your direction.

Not a lot of ire.

I did watch— yeah, I know, I, I did see the, the Mamet stuff, and I have pers— I have a personal history with him because he, when I wore glasses, he was the only other person who wore the same glasses I did, which he still wears. They're, they're from Cutler and Gross, they're yellow. So I was a little pissed off, you know what I mean? Because like, that's not— that's kind of my thing.

For younger listeners, David Mamet David Mamet, father of Zosia Mamet from HBO's Girls. Carry on, Chris.

Is the— is the, um, if that—

if that's the intro for people, I'm gonna just like jump off a bridge. That's so—

I mean, honestly, for David Mamet, you ain't— you know, nobody listens to this shit is going to the theater.

I don't think so. Sam, Chris, and Jason, we're— we're of an age now to where, you know, there are— yeah, there are millions and millions of young people who do not know who David Mamet, playwright, who love HBO's Girls?

Glen Gary Glen Ross. Coffee is for closers.

No, they might know that, but they might not know who he is.

We are the last generation of people who knows the lineage of coffee is for closers, by and large. And just barely because that movie came out in what, '87?

Yeah.

Something.

That was before you were born, right, Sam?

A little bit.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

'82, huh? Okay.

You're 82?

No, I'm 82, I'm saying. So I was only 5 years old. So when, when you guys start tangling and you, you don't, you don't break, you stand firm, you're 10 toes down, you're, you're fucking, you know what I'm saying, you're, you're doing your little thing, squared up to Mamet. And is this the first time anyone's ever walked out on you? Yeah. Okay. And he walked out in a, in a, in a manner that was like, you, from what I remember, you stayed at the, at the table. He stormed, he storms off. Are there producers and shit that are like, yo, chill, chill, chill, or does he just like barrel through like he's, you know, a linebacker?

Our producer Caroline Reebok did go and try to say, you know, this sounds like a reality show.

I love it. You chase him at the reunion out to his trailer while he's smoking a cigarette.

When he said free Gaza, he didn't mean it, David. Okay. Just, we want to get you back in and see if we can.

She, no, I mean, you're not that far off. She said, she was like, you know, he's not an antisemite.

Okay. So he was, he was the, the issue was he thought you were being antisemitic.

He believed believed something that was incorrect. Yeah, which wouldn't— sure, which wouldn't be the first time.

But how did you— how were you able— because I don't— I'm not really a calm cat, you know what I mean? If Mamet wants to square up, I'm saying we got the cameras rolling, I'll give you a two-piece right here, and we'll all make some money on these ratings.

Send your ass to Tel Aviv.

Yeah, exactly. I'll send you— yeah, exactly.

I mean, the number— the numbers would be unbelievable.

But the number— but I was— my follow-up question, even though you didn't get there, but the numbers are pretty good.

They were good. But you know, he said, he said, "You look like someone who's never been hit before." You do.

I mean, I agree with him on that.

And I said to him, "You look like the person who wants to deliver the first blow." And I'm hard. And then he said, "Well, now you're taking it seriously." And I was like, "Wait a minute." It's like, being gaslit by David Mamet, a word I hate and a thing I think is silly, is so weird, but I'm glad we have the tape so people can see.

Why did you have gaslighter David Mamet on the show to begin with? Was he promoting— was there a book or something?

There was a book that I and only I read, but it was like a—

it was like a memoir type thing, right?

No, no, no, no, it was, um, let me get the title. He wrote like a few of these books. One was called Recessional: The Death of Free Speech and the Cost of a Free Lunch, which—

oh, Jesus Christ. Okay, that's— I'm out.

He's written a lot of books. Definitely a lot of books. I remember Everywhere and Oink Oink a few years ago. That was a big—

Everywhere and oink oink. Yeah, he went on Bill Maher for that. I remember that. And he did— it was called The Disenlightenment. That's what it was called. Politics.

So what is— what is he— but what's his whole— what's his thing now? Like, what's he on? Like, what— give me the elevator pitch on what his shit is right now.

Okay.

I'll just say, because people kept asking, why do you have him on? One, I love David Mamet's play.

Oh yeah. I'm not mad at you for having him.

I grew up in Chicago. He's like a fucking legend to me.

Mamet country.

Also a great guest in interviews for, you know, seen him over the years. He's a compelling guy.

He's a great talker. It doesn't always make sense, but he's a great talker. So I was like, I was just excited to do it. And then the moment he sits down, it literally goes, David, how are you doing? And he says, well, you know, a lot better because those fucking Colombia protesters are gone.

Okay.

And I was like, well, right, but how— what did you have for breakfast? And I was like, oh, Oh, he just jumped right into the deep end.

You're like, "But Cheerios, Honey Nut or regular?

What do you—" I was like, "Could we talk about anything else?" But he wanted to— that's where he started. He leaves.

You're pretty— he's radicalized. He leaves. You guys almost come to blows. He leaves. The producer tries to console him in the, let's say, the parking lot in the Valley, just for my mindset. Santa Monica. Okay. I'll get some courage over here. Whatever you want, we'll do it. He couldn't be compelled. To stay and return to the studio and finish like two grown adults? No. Okay. And then after the fact, did his people reach out to be like, do not publish this, like we can't have this up, whatever, whatever? Or were they like, fuck you, our client is right?

Uh, they reached out and they apologized.

They apologized on his behalf, but they didn't ask for a takedown?

No. Wow. I think they were mortified.

Sure, you can be mortified and still ask for the takedown down. Yeah, you could.

We wouldn't have done that.

But I mean, do you think that— do you think this even— I wonder if this negatively impacted him at all. That's the question.

Did I— you know, we were doing— because the show, um, the reason I was like, Chris, can I— oh, I want to come back. It's like Talk Easy just turned 10. Do it right. Talk Easy just turned 10.

Congratulations.

That's a long time. It's a long time. And we did this interview in The Guardian and it was the first time like someone wrote like a real— I know you guys have had a bunch of like profiles, but it was the first one that someone really like dove deep and asked a lot of stuff. And I— she asked me this thing and I've thought about a lot, which is like, did I feel regret or remorse about how that went? And honestly, like, I don't regret how it went. I stand by the tape, I stand by the questions, but it's impossible for me to like like, sorry to get like sentimental on the show, but no, no, no, no, no. I was like, man, this dude's in his 70s, he's driving home to his wife, and it's just, it's a sad image to me that he felt like the need and frustration to like, he can't finish a podcast interview, and that he thinks any part of me doesn't like like or respect Jewish people or where he cut, like, which I couldn't be further from the truth.

Like he came in guns firing and then like your image of him is like angry guy driving home alone.

And it wasn't like, I really came prepared. I had read plays that no one had ever seen or read. I mean, I had read books that frankly none of his supporters on the right have fucking cracked the book open.

And you couldn't even talk about that because he lost his temper.

We talked a little bit about it, but then he did, we couldn't get back to it. And then it was just lost. So I do feel kind of— I don't know, I can't help but shake, like an old man driving home.

Yeah, that's okay though. I think that's not— I don't think you're— I don't think— I don't think you're wrong. I do think it's sad to some extent. I mean, I think that also, like, it— with people like this, it's interesting to sort of destroy your legacy for like nothing. Like, who is— what is this? What's the point of this? Like, what are you— who are you trying to appease? Who are you trying to impress? Who are you trying to— what is the point of this? Maybe— I mean, maybe you just believe it. Of course, that's fine if that's what the— that you feel that strongly. But it's crazy to me that someone of that caliber wouldn't listen to some sort of reason from someone.

He believes he's been canceled. He believes he's, he's been ostracized in Hollywood.

But was there a certain moment that he was ostracized for, or is this a slow roll? He says—

I mean, he wrote an article in like 2008 for The Village Voice. I think it was called like, "Why I'm No Longer a Braindead Liberal." Okay, and The Village Voice in 2008, I guess people still credit.

Uh, it's not 2002, it's like it was still reasonably read, you know what I mean? Because the Village Voice had an unfortunate long slow death, one of our greatest independent newspapers.

Are you a big—

you're a big supporter, Chris? I love an Alternative Weekly.

Yeah, I think Alternative Weekly, because I grew up, we had one in Atlanta called Creative Loafing. That was the show, that was the show listings, like that was sort of like, you know, any sort of local interests, like we're going to profile the record store owner or what, you know, that kind of thing is where I learned all of that, you know. And I read those religiously seriously. So I think that the Village Voice is obviously the upper echelon of that.

That was the best.

It's no OC Weekly, where— which I grew up on, but it's cute.

Exactly. They had like, you know, they had a small group of them. Like, I think maybe Athens had one, and then like Asheville, or, you know, whatever. There was like Creative Loving.

What a perfect '90s local rag name.

Doesn't get better. It really is. And I think that that is the— I think all that stuff being gone— there was also one in Atlanta called Stomp and Stammer, which is like a newsprint magazine, but it put, you know, it would put like Nico Case on the COVID or whatever, you know what I mean? And then it would be like deep. It was like a very—

Nico Case on the case. It was just cool.

It was just cool that that's it, because I used to read those religiously and like collect them. And like the thought of that existing now is so foreign that I, you know— so what Sub Sucks for?

It was cool when we cared about things that were happening around us.

Boring.

Like when we invested in people like in our community and in our city.

Well, hey bro, I'm investing now.

Every— everything, everything Everything, everything's like national now, so it's all just—

I agree. I mean, you know, interestingly enough, when I was, um, when I was fly fishing in Virginia, the fly fishing guide who was like an absolute, you know, like the guy was smoking the watermelon vape, had two Red Bulls, had a ponytail, tie-dyed shirt, like looked insane. At the end I was like, oh, have you been doing this? You know, have you been a fly fish— fly fishing, you know, coach basically your whole life? He's like, oh no, I worked at a printing press. We, we— the business just completely, like, overnight it died. He's like, I was— I did— I went to college for it. I did it for 20 years, and then one day it was just sort of like, this ain't happening anymore. And part of it was like these Alternative Weekly, like, that kind of consistent business disappeared. And now I vape. He seemed pretty happy about it, honestly. But overall, I think it's like, it was a, it was a testament to the whole thing. But I'd also— I mean, I would prefer Jason, you know, buy his Chappell Roan tickets, get his adult diaper, and go down there and play chess until she hits the stage. That's— that to me is more That's, that's local in its own way.

I think I've got a sweater I'm trying to finish, so I'll probably bring my rig.

Yeah, but I think that was a good— I, I'm glad that that got published, partly because it's deeply entertaining, and second of all because, um, because I think that we don't see— I mean, I think that the whole critique of our entire business now is like, it's softballs, it's softballs, it's Jake Shane, it's this, it's that. And I think like seeing a guy just absolutely come unraveled because you're asking a few questions questions that in theory aren't even that hard. If he really, you know what I mean, if he really believes what he's saying, then, then it shouldn't be that difficult to answer the questions. And him just blowing a fucking gasket is, is a reminder of what we could have.

Yeah, I can't imagine Jake Shane asking those questions.

Mehmet wants to be canceled. He has a, he has self-canceled fantasies. I mean, we don't ask questions like that either.

If somebody's gonna storm off on How Long Gone, it's because we have—

that's not the show. You guys aren't, they're not trying to do that. No, definitely, definitely not.

But I think that people— I think that it doesn't matter what the— I don't know, I think that people can feel backed into a corner almost no matter what kind of show it is, unless it's like the ultimate softballs with approved questions beforehand and you've rehearsed it like Call Her Daddy level. I think it could be anything.

Have you guys ever sent questions to the person that you're gonna have on?

No, no, I've, I've, I've sent topics for like interviews. They like made me send topics for like Somber, you know what seen, like, for things to cover when I was writing about him. But on this show, no. And no one's ever heard it before it comes out either. And we're not even like— we don't stand on some journalistic principles. It's just like, that's not the game, bro. That's just not how this works. Yeah, we're not going to give you— fine, once that happens, then it's— you're a fucking brain-dead, you know, Serena Williams documentary on HBO that she has final cut on, and it's just stupid, you know? It's like, nobody wants that. It's just not fun for anybody if that's what you're getting. That's not a good product, you know, for the, for the guests too. I think the thing is that the, that I hope we give the guests an opportunity to show part of their personality that maybe other people aren't, you know what I mean? So that's, that's a win for them.

Chris, I think we, we gotta get Jason back cuz Jason, Jason's doing some texts over there.

I was texting our video editor about some notes. We're, I'm deep in the middle of a video edit right now, but you know, luckily this is an audio-based podcast, so our listener had no idea any of that was happening until you wanted to bring it to light. So if you want to do a little tit for tat, right after David Mamet, you interviewed Mayor Karen Bass. Let's talk about the softball questions going on over there. The floor is yours.

Yeah, go ahead. I'm surprised you would platform someone like that, but I guess that's kind of your— that's what you're in the business of.

Who failed our city?

So I guess you didn't have anybody lose a house in your community, Sam. I don't know, maybe the East Side wasn't as affected by the fires.

Yeah, he said it's just the Palisades, Heidi.

It's just the Palisades. No, there's— I mean, the moment I start telling you what I asked her, I've lost.

So it's over. That's true. You're right. You know yourself. I mean, I, I love that you have to interview all these politicians because it's just like—

I don't think you have to. I don't have to. I, I like it.

Politicians get ratings, right? But don't you think with politicians—

and this is, this is in all sincerity— do you ever feel like you're talking to a real human being? Because I don't.

I think the goal is to somehow get there.

Of course, of course.

And even if it's like 7 minutes where you're like, okay, something happened, but you think someone—

you think someone on— I mean, Karen Bass is obviously a very certain specific thing. But I mean, do you think there are, you know, senators that can actually hang with a microphone on?

I think there are. I, I think there are. But also, my feeling is, so long as they have the— so long as they have the power to keep making decisions for us, and so long as they keep influencing our lives, they have to answer questions. Like, that's, that's—

oh yeah, I agree with that. No, no, I'm saying more— I'm I'm saying, I'm saying more, do you think you ever get the cloak dropped? Like, does the mask, no pun intended, ever come down?

Um, is that like Taylor Lorenz? The—

I'm saying that, does the N95 ever hit the chin when you're talking to an elected official? Not if I have something to do with it.

Okay, well, also, you know, does the mask ever come down when you're talking to a fellow podcaster who also projects a character for their entire life, more so than a politician politician like an Ira Glass, like a Malcolm Gladwell, you know what I mean? Like when I listen to a Gladwell interview, I don't get the sense that this is, you know, the veil is dropping and I'm getting the real real.

Can I tell you, I don't know him super well, but having worked for him for a few years, he's about what you hear on the podcast. It's maybe turned up 10 or 20%, but he's like—

I think there's some truth to that too, Jason. When someone's doing it that long, it's tough to decipher even what the difference is. Well, 'cause I think politicians are really selling themselves and whoring themselves out. In a way that even a podcaster—

That's not a slight. I mean, if I met Terry Gross at the supermarket, is she going to be— Oh. Is she— Can you turn Terry Gross, can you turn your broadcasting off? I love Terry.

Terry's a badass bitch. When do you go fill in?

I fill in whenever they need me. I'm trying to do once every 2 or 3 months for a week. Okay.

So who do you get the call from NPR? Like, look, Terry had a— Terry had a bad batch of French onion. She's down for a couple days. We need Sam. Let me tell you, let me tell you something.

Ta-Nehisi Coates can't move it. He has to be now.

By the way, I, I— they would never move Ta-Nehisi Coates.

Come on. Lizzie Warren said no. Lizzie Warren said no.

Let me tell you something, Terry does not tap out. Out. She is the hardest working—

bad, real bad bitch. No, she, she is the hardest working person I know.

I, I mean, hon— honest to God. I mean, she, she— I mean, you guys, you guys work and do so many episodes. Like, imagine this, she used to do, I think, like 12 interviews a week.

Damn. I mean, it was insane. Suck on that, Bari Weiss. Um, exactly.

She, she— and she has not lost a step.

And like, I, I'm— yeah, that's—

yeah, So she's amazing.

All right, so when— but do you think she has a say in her fill-in, or do you think the overlords of the NPR lib corporation are plucking you from obscurity?

No, they're like, what if we get Tyler Mitchell to do it instead of Sam, just to mix up the flavor? The photographer Tyler Mitchell? Exactly. Or what's— who's the— who's the gay guy that we have on to talk about— who does the TikToks about fashion? Nikki Campbell.

Oh, Nikki Campbell.

Like, well, like, like, what if they're like, what if we're just gonna try something new? We're gonna get—

is he the one that gives like kind of Honest feedback.

Yeah, he's so funny, like to camera, like his— I like that guy, he's really funny.

But I just like the idea of them— literally a crane picks your head up and then drops him in, and it's like, all right, you and Ezra Klein, let's see what's going on with the state of horror movies.

Ezra, can you do a circle for me? No.

You and Link later are gonna do laps right now, see what happens.

Yeah, but who gives you— who calls your agent, and what's that NPR check looking like? Because is it Is it a donation?

I think Jason's just looking. I think Jason's just on the TalkEasy website naming people that are on the guest page.

Again, the veil doesn't have to drop, Sam.

Audio-based podcast only. Yeah, Sam, Sam, but for real, when you get that call, like, are you, do you have to, do you have to pay them to let you do this or do they pay you? Stop.

Okay. Well, speaking of this, the, the TalkEasy website, do people have to pay more money to have just a nice portrait of their face on it versus like the artwork of their book?

No, no one pays any money. Okay.

You know, like Chris Hayes, the broadcaster, like there's a picture of like a newscasting screen.

Well, that was an editorial one. I think when we have—

Oh, I see. Ezra Klein has his book up there and Will Welch. It's not just a portrait. It's him on the GQ. Yeah. So, you know, so you get a little, you know, not a household name.

No, it's actually based on like if the episode's about a certain subject. Object. So like, I think not— those were not like deep autobiographical interviews. Actually, with the Will one, it was a little bit of mix.

No, it's just more so I'm like always interested when, you know, the artwork for certain guests, you have to like— like, this person is not famous enough to just have a picture of them, so we have to like, like weave in what they're known for, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean, that's not— Ezra actually came on before and he did get a normal portrait, not that it matters, but Like, sure, I want to say one thing, wait, three things. The— that Nicki guy, what's his name again?

Nicki Campbell.

Okay, him going through Mark Ronson's outfits, those are amazing. I mean, Mark is such a nice guy and like is so game for that, but that was— I love that video.

He did it with— I think he did it with Charlie too. He's done it with a few people. It's a really fun concept. It's a really fun way to do it. Yeah, he's really funny.

I also— I'll just say, just like on the record, I, in no world would I ever be able to like co-host or guest host Fresh Air if it wasn't something Terry wanted.

Mm, okay, so she's, okay, I know I'm serious. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's her, you know, she's made this thing for fucking 50 years.

And but you have to go to Philadelphia.

No, I don't have to. I do stuff from LA too, but I, I went to Philly recently just to, to work in the office and And it was, it was an amazing experience.

So when you, so if you, all right, so if they're like, all right, Sam, we need you to pinch hit. And then it's, you know, you look at the, you look at the lineup and you're like, oh, oh, all right, well this isn't, this isn't my favorite subjects, but you know, it's NPR, it's Terry. For Terry, we do anything. You know, we all get dressed for Terry.

Not a big avid elementary fan, but I'll see what I can do. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, cause, cause with Talk Easy, you're driving the bus, bro. You pick, you pick it all. When, if it's Quinta, it's 'cause you want her, you know what I mean? But if it's NPR, and by the way, I would be happy.

Happy to do Quinta on Fresh Air. We love Quinta Brunson. And by we, I mean me.

I had a nice chat with— I had a nice chat with Quinta at the Paul Smith thing, Jason, at the— after you left the valet, me and Quinta chopped it up a little bit.

Betty Boop. She's good people. She seems like good people.

Jason, I feel like we've been at a party where the three of us were talking. I like have a memory of this like a couple of years ago.

It's possible. It's possible. I don't know. I don't have any recollection.

Jason Howard. Jason towered over Quinta Brunson.

I tower over every actor. Every actor is short as hell. I know. Okay, wow, Jason.

I tower over all these little bitches. Sebastian Stan, I make him look like shrimp.

It's not because of me, Chris. You tower over them as well. Every actor's short. That's just what it is. That's true. They look jacked on TV. They look brolic, you know. Joe Bernthal on The Bear, like, this guy's gnarly as fuck. You meet him, I'm sure, you know, Josh Brolin as well.

Well, Josh Brolin's 5'3". I saw him on this plane train once in Atlanta. No, he is not.

He's short as fuck. Terry Crews, he looks like a fucking Godzilla on TV.

He's like 5'6".

Terry Crews is like 5'6". Little man. Little man.

Bro, for a man, 5'6" is 5'3", bro.

Maybe 5'7". Bro, Arlo Parks could take him. I mean, Arlo.

Arlo's actually like 6 feet, I think. Arlo got hands too. Put Bill Hader in a fucking reverse naked choke triangle.

Liz is going to email you guys being like, so cut all the Arlo Park stuff out. Just leave that out.

No, that's our best bit. Liz loves this shit. I look, I think that they—

thank you so much.

I'm sure you're— I'm sure your team knows what you're capable of and they hate to see you throttled. They hate to see you throttled for profit every day.

Actually, well, on the topic of parties, I had a note that in chamber that I wanted to run you— run by you. Oh, the Château Marmont. We've spent a lot of time partying there over the years. Yep. And I had a meal there. We've all eaten there a bunch of times. Do you think there was a time ever when the food at the château was considered good, like in the '60s or the '70s, or like, you know, decades ago? Was there a time where, you know, the quality was good and the, the, the public's perception of what good food is and their, their need to have higher quality food— was there a time where the food at the château was considered good.

Make Chateau great again.

Just their F&B. It's fine for—

it's fine for normal people.

I don't know. I mean, also, frankly, whatever was happening in the '60s and '70s, there was an amount of drugs where like the food was pretty secondary.

Let me tell you something, Jason. If you're— yeah, if you're off a couple tabs, man, the scrambled eggs taste good. You know what I'm saying, man? I know exactly what you mean. That baguette is super fresh. You would think it would be better.

I mean, you really like Like, I, I don't understand.

You guys are insane. It's totally fine. The way people talk about this is like they're getting cafeteria food. Like, it's totally fine.

No, it just, it just should be like 10% better, cuz I like going there. Why?

Why? No hotel food is 10% better. That's not what you're going to a hotel for. You're going to a hotel for other reasons.

It's remarkably bad food for how amaz— it's like the one thing that's wrong with it. No, it's crazy.

I don't think it's as bad as Jason's saying. I think I'm somewhere in the middle between you.

It's Crazy. Like, it's just not that— it's everything's— if that's— but I mean, everything's kind of bad. So unless you want to go to an annoying restaurant that's going to cost $1,000 and you have to sit there for 4 hours.

I know, but it's, it's just, it, it gets me going when you have this hotel that has such amazing energy, architecture. All the people that work there are legends. You walk on the premises, you feel like you're at Disneyland. You feel so special for being there.

Where have you ever had— where have you ever had hotel food It's good.

You go to the Hoxton, you go to the Ace Hotel. These are, these are much lower quality hotels in terms of price, amenities.

But you're not about to tell me the Hoxton, you're not about to do that.

The food at the Hoxton, I've stayed at multiple Hoxtones. It is head and shoulders better than ChaCha.

After this podcast, you will be staying there for free.

Yeah. Shout out to my Hoxton family. My last promo code died out, so I need more. But like you go to the Ace Hotel in Palm Springs. It's not a culinary destination. It runs laps around Chateau's food.

That place is— the food at the Ace Hotel is bad business there. I gotta say, it's not good. It's really—

it's bad business.

I like the vibe. I like the vibe.

I would rather eat that food.

I like the vibe though. You would like the vibe. They gotta have a record player in the room for you.

I was just in London a couple weeks ago, and I'm gonna go there next week. We're staying at the Athos Hotel in Shoreditch, just across the street from the in. Okay, go down, have a— I'm like, I'm gonna edit the pod. I get a, a nice Asahi cold beer for $6, an $18 burger that's perfectly done, served to me by a normal person, and it was quite delicious. And this is just— this is happening at hotels across the world, all over the place.

Obviously a lot of bad shit happens. Mortified. Chris is just sitting there. He's not mortified.

No, no, I'm not. I'm not mortified. Oh my God, no, I'm not mortified. If I— I just could care less about any— like, it's all like, I'm staying in a hotel for the room. I'm not staying there because the salad's good. 100%. That's all.

I, I agree. As a perfectionist, I'm like, you're so close, you're so close. There's just one thing, you know. It's like somebody walks out— Chris, you're a stylist, you're gonna go shoot an amazing model or whatever, and you have this head-to-toe look that is just exquisite, and then you look and, you know, the belt or the shoe or one piece of this look, it's beyond an abortion. It is just astronomical that you decide—

here's the thing, here's the thing.

All you have to do is change it for something better and then we have reached perfection.

But I don't stay at a hotel. I don't stay at a hotel to eat. I go to restaurants. That's the other thing. Like, the only thing I would ever eat at a hotel is eggs, which is usually fine, is the reality.

I know. I don't stay at the Chateau, but I go there a lot and sometimes there's food. There is food.

Actually, you know what, the— whatever. I got to go. I got to go. Sam, thank you. Thank you for joining us on How Long Gone today. It was a pleasure.

For our listeners at home, Chris just unplugged unplugged his headphones and threw him against the wall.

No, no, no. I, I love you, Sam. It was good to see you. Uh, Talk Easy, 10 years. You should do a victory lap for that. You're one of the greats, and, uh, we appreciate you taking the time to join us. Thank you, boys.

Um, I love, I love being on the pod, and I can't believe we're ending on this note.

Well, look, I'm sorry, I'm in the middle of something.

We can have How Long Gone appear on Talk Easy one day. Who knows?

Yeah, when are you, when are you gonna, when are you gonna let the big dogs come on? Because you're pussyfooting around with all these senators and shit. David Mamet, you want Anytime.

I know you are. You were— it was a glaze fest with you and Chris from The Ringer. I'm like, what are you going to do for us if we go?

Yeah, I don't even watch movies. I will be able to get through it.

Is it both? Is it both of you? Would you both come on at the same time? I'll do—

we'll do whatever you want, bro.

It's your call. Yeah, we'll do whatever you want. However you want to slice it.

Can we have a peg? When's the 5-year anniversary of the show? Is that—

we're about to hit it. We're about to hit that. We've already bit that. We're about to hit 1,000 episodes.

Holy shit. Okay. All right. Let's talk about that.

This episode will be 9:50.

Chris has to go have lunch.

Okay. Bye-bye. Bye, guys. It's work. Stand in the place where you live now. Face north. Think about direction. Wonder why you have it now.

Stand in the place where you were.

Now face west. Think about the place where you live.

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